Notably, the only people who died that day were Trump supporters. Mr. Pence then pivoted to talk about the Black Lives Matter riots. Mr. Carlson repeatedly brought the conversation back until Mr. Pence stated what appeared to be his real opinion on what happened on Jan. 6, why he chose to certify the 2020 election, and why he appears to now oppose his former boss.
"But candidly as I've said before, you know, President Trump’s words that day were reckless, I believe whatever his intentions in that moment it endangered me and my family and everyone that was at the Capitol that day," Mr. Pence said. "I believe history will hold him accountable for that."
Mr. Carlson also challenged Mr. Pence’s views on why the United States should continue to supply weapons to Ukraine.
"You are distressed that the Ukrainians don't have enough American tanks. Every city in the United States has become much worse over the past three years; drive around, there's not one city that's gotten better ... and it's visible. Our economy has degraded, the suicide rate has jumped, public filth and disorder and crime have exponentially increased. ... I think a fair question to ask is where is the concern for the United States in that," Mr. Carlson said.
"Well it's not my concern," Mr. Pence responded.
Mr. Pence then went on to acknowledge the issues that matter here at home: the border crisis, lack of law and order, financial challenges, and others. He noted that with Ukraine, his focus would be to ensure America is strong abroad as well.
But for many viewers, and from what was visible in online discussions afterward, public opinion had shifted.
Following that event, when Mr. Carlson spoke onstage at Turning Point USA in Florida, he shared his views about what was a candid and somewhat brutal discussion with the GOP hopefuls.
He said the public seems to accept “blanket rules” on topics and debate, and everyone just seems to follow along. There are accepted topics. Most discussions tend to follow the same basic template of talking points.
Yet, the real topics, the ones that actually matter to voters, tend to fall by the wayside. Or even worse, the real topics sometimes will get you attacked.
There has been a growing divide between public opinion and approved opinion. There's a rift between the facts that the establishment media say are absolute, and what the public holds to be true. The trajectory in dealing with these growing rifts has been a push by establishment platforms to censor anyone who deviates.
But maybe what we don’t need is censorship. At least, it doesn’t seem to be working. Maybe what we need instead is honest, and sometimes unpleasant, debate.